Our reply
WHY YOU SHOULD STILL VOTE AGAINST THE AMENDMENT
IN LIGHT of the response from our first
posting, the Monash Student Council will lead you to believe that all is
fine as the referendum is being carried out by a third party. However, FRAUD
can take different forms; considering the “apathetic” voters of Monash were
actually FORCED to make a choice of which they have no concerns about (through
the MyMonash portal), their counterargument is senseless. Ask any who voted
“Yes” in this current referendum why they did so, and they’ll simply tell you
it’s because the representative from MUSA said it’s “good for them”. In other
words, most voters would vote however MUSA tells them to; involuntary
voting and mass propaganda may be legal but it’s still fraudulent. This
“father knows best” policy that they carry around in their flashy pamphlets and
glossy posters is another myth, the MSC doesn’t know what’s best for us,
we do.
And even if the MSC claims they have good
intentions, they duly forget to remind you of a tiny detail: people have an
amazing ability to lie. Coupling this with MUSA’s dire lack of
transparency, accountability and internal checks
and balances; who is to know what’s going on behind that door? Yes,
meeting minutes may be published, but they’re all “official” and sanitised.
Budgets may be tabled – even the Malaysian government does that, but do you
actually know how much is spent, on what and by whom? Needless to remind you,
there are no voices of dissent from within the MSC, and campus publications (Monga,
etc) are a MUSA monopoly. But what disturbs us the most is the fact that
MUSA has the monopoly to interpret the MUSA Constitution, the same one they are
trying to amend! Is this the checks and balance system the MSC is so
passionately evangelising about? Having the ability to make, carry out and
interpret laws under the same roof by the same 25 people?
But the main myth propagated by the MSC is
that the student body need them as a representative. That view has two flaws: 1)
if they’re going to hold a collective voice, individual voices must to be
limited (i.e. their words carry more weight than yours), and 2)
almost nobody puts the interests of others above their own. MUSA is a
union, a socialist structure where the interest of the student body takes precedence
over those of the individual, which may sound prudent, but think of those 25
people in the MSC: do you really know them? How do you know your interests are
in common with theirs? How do you know they are indeed the honest souls as they
had portrayed themselves in elections? Is it not suspicious that when these
“representatives” propagate the virtues of this ongoing referendum, they seem
to represent MUSA rather than their fellow students?
Email: ca-musa[at]hotmail.com
Vote
“NO” at the MyMonash portal
Blog: http://camusa.blogs.friendster.com
©
2007 Coalition for the Abolishment of MUSA
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September 20th, 2007 at 11:39 am
Hi Ca-musa. Apart from your reasoning about voting NO to the amendments of the MUSA constitutions, I would like to comment on some of the points that you have quoted in your article above.
1. in no circumstances, a student can be forced to or involuntarily vote for or against the amendments of the constitutions. It is of no circumstances of a knifepoint, gunpoint situation that somebody will be “forced” to vote. I know the knifepoint example may sound a little absurd, but it is just to point out the simple fact that NO forcing can ever be done for a voter to vote.
2. “MSC does not know what is best for us, we do!”
I would think that MSC were part of “us” – students. Anyhow, all the meetings are open to students to participate to ensure the transparency, and if the writer insists that you still know the best, I will strongly urge you to run for the election for the upcoming MUSA general election. Due to Monash’s “well reputation” for heavy academic schedule, few individuals have actually taken the extra efforts to make a stand and protect the students’ rights, and I sincerely believe that it’s always easier to say than done. Unless something is put into practice, it will merely just be another waste of efforts.
3. “Coupling this with MUSA’s dire lack of transparency, accountability and internal checks and balances; who is to know what’s going on behind that door? Yes, meeting minutes may be published, but they’re all “official” and sanitised. Budgets may be tabled – even the Malaysian government does that, but do you actually know how much is spent, on what and by whom?”
I believe that there’s a Monash internal finance policy which prevents the reveal of the account balance sheets of MUSA to the general public. MUSA funds are generally directed from the part of the students’ tuition fees which are RM60 per year and I sincerely believe the MUSA will always put student’s welfare as priority before spending them. Let’s do a simple math, assuming a student attended just 2 activities out of the many which MUSA organized throughout the year (O-bash ~RM50 + Monash Ball with a rough subsidy of RM25), I believe that what the students paid for MUSA (RM60) is worth-well. Not to mention about countless MUSA efforts to support the clubs and societies, international students, facilitate Monash Voice Out etc. Additionally, the treasury of MUSA is being constantly monitored by the finance department. Every claims must be pass at least at a president level, where if the claim is big, both the advisor and the vice chancellor must approved before it can be processes!
4. “But what disturbs us the most is the fact that MUSA has the monopoly to interpret the MUSA Constitution, the same one they are trying to amend!”
Constitution is meant for a reason and nobody can has the monopoly to interpret it! *Grin*
Unless you’re Pesident Fort who bend the constitution to spare the life of President Dixon.
If you do have the time to surf through MSA (MUSA counterpart of clayton campus) & MONSU (Caulfield & Peninsula campus)’s constitution, which are available for download in their respective website. They only required a 5% referendum. A 75% referendum, which is what MUSA constitution holds, is even harder to amend in comparison to some of the countries’ constitutions. As times goes, especially as Monash is growing, I believe old constitutions doesn’t always turn up to be practical. It’s of a country usual practice to amend the nation constitution to keep them in the era of the globalization.
5. Campus publications (Monga, etc) are a MUSA monopoly.
By saying this statement, I believe the writer has no knowledge of the existence of the Malaysia Private Universities & Colleges Law. It is my understanding that under this constitution, every single student activities must come under a student union’s arm, or it will be deemed illegal. So, there is no monopoly since apparently, this is the only way! Besides, MONGA is a student magazine which constantly welcomes the feedback from students about anything related or concerning their campus experience. I believe they will love to publish your views or article shall you approach them.
~freedom~
September 21st, 2007 at 7:34 am
Sir, if you can just listen to yourself, you can see how empty you answers are.
1. Involuntary voting.
Seeing that when a student wants to log into MyMONASH to check their email and such were forced to vote, otherwise they wouldn’t be let in, isn’t that involuntary in nature? What if he/she doesnt want to vote but still wants to log into My Monash. Is that possible?
2. MSC = us? Really?
Are they? Having a few INDIVIDUALS to “represent” 3000 student is hardly the definition of “us”. Protecting the students’ rights? the MSC’s verbal sparring with Admin is as good as any of the 3000’s, but the difference here is that with the MSC, you must take self-interested INDIVIDUALS into account; and with that much power in such few hands, do you thing that’s a good idea?
3. MUSA’s financial policy.
Considering that is the students money anyway, don’t you think students should decide directly what and where to spend it on? That money would be better spent if given straight to the clubs and socs which has ACTIVE members to watch over the spending, rather than MUSA’s 3000 PASSIVE members (minus 25).
4. Interpretation of the MUSA constitution.
Unless we’re blind, it says in the MUSA website “Other duties of MUSA include … to interpret the MUSA constitution” (http://www.musaonline.com/musa.html). For those who are unfamiliar with legal structures, “interpretation” is a power reserved for courts, that is, to define the meaning of written laws. What it says is that MUSA can execute orders (budgets, spendings…etc) as well as judge whether such orders are “legal” as per “interpretation”. As in the Malaysian gov itself, that’s not a good combination of powers…
5. Campus publications.
Yes, we’re aware of PUC as well as UUCA (university and university colleges act). Yes it does make it illegal to freely publish articles about “sensitive” issues (what he’s saying is that MUSA is not for our CIVIL RIGHTS) but what is law is not always right (Do you find the ISA agreeable? I’d bet you do…). And about the constitution backing MUSA’s control over the clubs and socs, thats another reason to abolish MUSA, and if needs be, the MUSA Constitution.
FREEDOM!
September 22nd, 2007 at 12:29 pm
Hi there
Response!
1. I believe e-voting is necessary as paper voting is:
i. Time consuming
ii. Need of hr for manning
iii. Hard to get to voters
I believe it is just a method of voting and showing your responsibility as a student. If you don’t wish the amendments of constitution to come through, there’s always an option to say… NO!
2. Having a few individuals to represent 3000 ain’t sufficient? How about 1000 of senators and politicians to rule a country of 25mil? Pls response!
3. Same as the above reasoning. Students deciding how students’ money should be spent? How about tax payer’s money in the country? There is always a need for some decision to be make especially in regards to money. As long as some level of scrutiny is there. (Monash Finance is doing that!) Imagine 3000 people in a meeting deciding how the money should be spend? Or 25mil Malaysian citizen gather every single week to discuss about the budget 2009 or the 9th Malaysian plan? Will that be efficient?
4. A constitution is a court-valid legal document. Under MUSA website which says “interpretation” never even appears once in MUSA constitution. It’s just a use of word during the creation modification of the web page.
5. If law is not always right, then I guess we’re wasting our time here defending what both of us are believing in now! because it all started by a “law document”, MUSA constitution. Since you’re aware that it is illegal, then your call to abolish MUSA and the constitution will be deemed illegal as well. What you’re doing is just like somebody trying to abolish the government, shouting “reformasi” on the street…
Again, if you feel strongly that there’s a need for a change in MUSA. Run for the damn election! I will seriously wanted to be led by someone as passionate as you about the welfare of students!
P/s: We should sit down and have a chat someday. It’ll be interesting!
Cheers.
~freedom~
September 22nd, 2007 at 9:03 pm
Counter-Response:
1.
How many even care to read it? Ask the students and see if they actually scrutinized the voting page and really thought through their choice.
2.
We’re not questioning the number of representative, but whether we really need representatives at all and if they’re really representative. Clubs and socs are representative as far as their members are concerned, and those members are ACTIVE. MUSA claims that all students are members of the union, this is a unilateral declaration of power, which in turn is invalid.
3.
Direct democracy is a hard thing to execute, even now with the power of the internet in our hands (wonder how the Athenians cope with the pressure…). But rather if the money went directly to the clubs and socs whether directly from the Uni or through student choice (if there’s a coupon/voucher system) iut would be democratically right as choices are in the students’ hands. Rather than of a few decision makers who don’t know what individuals want.
From your argument i think you’d be the kind that supports a benevolent autocracy rather than a democracy, a strongman that can “get the job done” rather than civilian choice. But democracy is not about right or wrong, its about the right to choose.
4.
Then who will “interpret” the constitution? The power to execute and legislate is already in the hands of the MSC, and now they’re implying judicial powers. And since most of the student body doesn’t care, that is a dangerous move indeed.
5.
We’ve been led to believe, for the longest time, that we need a central governing body; but do we really? Ponder that for a few moments. And no, we’re not “anarchists” as your recent fliers say. Anarchists done believe in systems, they believe in individuals; we’d rather have a self-regulating cooperation between clubs and socs, which is a system in itself, albeit a decentralized one.
Yes, a chat would be interesting. But considering we’d just vexed the Malaysian government with our last flier, sadly to say to appear publicly would be an impossibility. Are you from the MSC by the way?
FREEDOM!
September 23rd, 2007 at 12:49 am
First of all, I am not from MSC.
Surprise!
Counter^2 Response!
1. It again falls back to if students are exerting their rights and showing their responsibility by voting. Check out the voting rate of the national election 5 years ago and you’ll understand why they are using a internet voting method. Btw, correct me if I am wrong, overseas US citizens are allow to cast their votes online and it’s still deemed legal. It’s just the matter of whether you say yes or no.
2 & 3. They are representatives because majority of the students vote for them to be in the office during last election. MUSA claim all students are member because ultimately, all Monash students pay for their MUSA fees and by law, it’s automatically a member. In a Nation, a certain budget is set aside for different purposes e.g. education budget, 9th malaysian plan etc. So as MUSA, during the 1st council meeting, there’ll be a budget setting discussion which allocate budgets into different divisions. C&S are one of the highest budget allocated after activities committee. Always, when a C&S is to lodge a subsidy claim in MUSA, the representatives will be present in the council meeting to explain the purpose of the money. I believe that is “voice”?! As for the autocratic claim, No, i am a democrat. I am a firm supporter of Hillary Clinton (*Grin). MUSA is functioning in a democratic way as well. That’s why the council members, all the sch representatives, international students president etc will vote in majority in order to pass a motion. Right?
4. I believe the meaning of their “interpretation” is to follow and abide to what the constitution is all about. And in order to steer MUSA or Monash to the new growth, I believe a amendments in constitution is sometimes vital. As long as the clause is made to known to students before it is seal in the constitution.
5. By saying we don’t need a central governing body? Are you sure? If there isn’t a governing body, how a nation, city, or even an organization will function? Apple is successful because of Steve, US is successful because somebody aka President George Washington set up a central government and fight for their independence? Imagine a country without government? How chaotic it can be?
I am looking forward for your next response!
Always good to have someone to debate about what we think is best for students! 
Cheers…
~freedom~
September 23rd, 2007 at 3:37 am
That claim is surely debatable considering how feverently supportive you are of them.
Counter^3 Response.
1.
I dont think you’re getting the idea. The US citizens go to that website to vote. MyMonash is not a ballot website. To hijack such important website in order to garner votes is surely unethical.
2 and 3.
Majority of the students? Are you sure? Or should it be majority of those who actually went to the ballot? Which pales in comparison to those who didn’t. Remember, the highest votes turnout in Monash history is less than 30%…sure not a majority. Of budgets, surely you’re joking by trying to justify that by having C&S the “highest budget allocated”? But considering the regulatory grip their spending would that really be democratic? With only one voice (the CS rep) to represent a collective body of associations that represents majority ACTIVE memberships, please don’t kid…
4.
Yes, like how the 11th article of the Malaysian constitution is followed and abided (if such word exists) during the Lina Joy case? Interpretative power is just as significant as the other two. Even now there’s too much power concentrated in the MSC.
5.
An alternative to a centralized governing body is a DECENTRALIZED one. The Swiss had been living with a decentralized government all this time. And you’re wrong about Washington’s centralizing of the US; during the revolutionary wars the Colonies were a loose confederation. Centralization only took place after the Civil War in 1865 under Lincoln. North Korea’s on the other hand is a REALLY centralized state care to move there?
As been said, we’re not “anarchists”, we believe that the system to replace MUSA should be a decentralized body, i.e. the CnS.
p/s: Hillary? Are you kidding me? She can’t even get universal healthcare off the ground! Obama’s the choice for this side…
FREEDOM!
September 24th, 2007 at 10:02 am
1. Yup, I don’t get it! I don’t get it why you are being so defensive about the voting. Just bloody vote NO if you are feeling unfair… Put on your thinking cap and think, if such method wasn’t taken into action, will a 75% voting rate even possible. It’s just a different way of doing things. I don’t see a problem in it. Student still have a choice to say a YES or NO. And, meanwhile, neither you or I are in position to say if the students are actually voting based on popularity or constitution. You’ll NEVER KNOW and you CAN NEVER PROVE! Anyway, the vote still counts.
2,3. Arha!you’re right! It’s majority of the students that vote! It’s a fact! So as the government elected in anywhere in the world. Students who didn’t vote normally don’t give a damn about what’s happening. Or they will be in. Being a irresponsible voter and trying to make a noise here? Don’t even get me started!
5. Apologies for the Washington’s statement. Indeed, Centralization only took place after Lincoln era, because they realized there’s a need for it! So, I assume that you are pro-John Wilkes Booth who are so against the idea of centralization that he put a bullet into Lincoln’s head! MUSA never interfere what a CnS desire to do! Insufficient as there is only one voice for CnS? There’s a team of CnS selected committee who are representing them in the division. Gandhi led India to independence with only one voice too, my friend!
Barack Obama? Good good. But I still fancy a President and First Gentlemen than a President and First Lady…
Cheers…
~Freedom~
September 24th, 2007 at 12:24 pm
Response^5
1.
I believe you’re either underestimating the apathy of the monashians of just trying to play dumb. I know you’re smarter than that, and you know exactly what we meant. Trying to justify the hijacking of a student website so that the referendum gets the 75% it needs? tsk tsk… Most students don’t even think of the consequences of voting “YES” (as the MUSA had ‘advised’) just as long that they can get into that website. If MUSA were to start a ballot website instead that that’d be OK as long as they’re not taking advantage of the students apathy.
2,3.
20-30% turnout constitutes a majority? on what planet? So you’re into the forcing of the will of a minority on the - unfortunately - unwilling and uncaring majority? We’re not “irresponsible” voters, because there’s nothing legitimate to vote for. And you forgot to rebut the “unilateral declaration of power” over all students.
5.
They didn’t have a centralized gov because they needed it. Its because the Union forces wouldn’t want anymore pesky secessions, which is the right of each member states according to the Continental agreement (that is, Lincoln had illegally created a centralized state using military force). And simply declaring we’re pro-Booth is just the “hitting below the belt” attitude we mentioned about in our email reply, no were not pro-Booth. And trying to pull Gandhi into this? Check your history miss, he can’t take all the credit all for himself.
About Hillary, unfortunately considering the backward, conservative US populous’ mentality, she’s gonna have a really tough time even passing the Primaries IMHO.
September 24th, 2007 at 9:34 pm
Hahaha. I really find it interesting to debate with you…
Cut the musa crap and let’s go out for a drink…and talk…
I am seriously not from MUSA if you are still wondering…
Cheers
September 25th, 2007 at 6:24 am
If you’re going to put down any opponent as being from MUSA, then it’s only going to convince people you’ve got nothing much to argue on.
Some advice: if you want to throw down an opponent, simply deconstruct every argument they throw at you. The best part is, you’ll come out looking smart.
September 25th, 2007 at 7:56 am
Hey, imitation,
Who is the opponent? MUSA, CAMUSA or Non-MUSA? Who u r referring to? I am confuse…
Clarify pls…
September 25th, 2007 at 8:02 am
The opponent is: whatever CAMUSA say is their opponent.
September 27th, 2007 at 8:05 am
Hey Camusa, election this coming week. Any comment? Will it be a better council? What’s your view?
September 27th, 2007 at 8:04 pm
Since they have declared that they do not hold any personal grudges against any members of the MSC (right), and that they for the abolishment of the student union, I guess they wouldn’t think much of the election process or candidates.
…unless this really is about this year’s MSC?
November 5th, 2008 at 4:27 am
Thank you for your website
I made with photoshop backgrounds for myspace and youtube and ect..
my backgrounds: http://tinyurl.com/5b8ksl
have a good day and thank you again!